The following is a transcript of an interview with Sen. Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Nov. 24, 2024.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to Kentucky Republican Senator Rand Paul. He is set to chair the Homeland Security Committee next year, and he sits on the Health Committee. Welcome back to “Face The Nation,” Senator.
SEN. RAND PAUL: Good morning, thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you are a doctor by training. I want to ask you about some of these health picks. I know that you personally said that you have vaccinated all of your children, but vaccination rates in this country, as you know, are on the decline. Are you at all concerned that elevating individuals who have been publicly critical of some particular vaccines, RFK jr. at HHS Secretary, Dave Weldon, the CDC director, that any of that will erode trust in vaccination?
SEN. PAUL: You know, I think all of us can agree that there’s an increase of vaccine hesitancy. I think it comes from people not believing what the government is telling them. The fact that the CDC committee for vaccines and the FDA committee for vaccines said for COVID boosters that you should take a booster if you’re over 65 and yet the Biden administration, Rochelle Walensky, actually politicized that, didn’t follow the signs and said you should boost your six-month-old. And the American public is rejecting this. Only about 20% of the American public of all ages is taking the COVID booster because the government hasn’t been honest with us. That dishonesty has led to vaccine hesitancy–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Well its vaccination rates in other- other vaccines as well not just COVID vaccines. There’s concern about measles–
SEN. PAUL: –Right but people have to believe it, right exactly, but people are doubting because they’re being told that. I’ll give you an example. Look, I think vaccines, smallpox, the story of smallpox vaccine, polio vaccine, are some of the most miraculous discoveries in all of medicine. And I’m not against vaccines, but like when my kids were little, the hepatitis B vaccine, they still want to give it to them as a newborn. I just- my babies new and just, you know, come into the world, and you can see how a lot of reasonable people say, Why do I have to do it as a newborn? Could I come back in three months or six months? So really, it’s about choice. It’s about getting rid of mandates. It’s about letting people participate, but it’s also about the government being honest. What are the risks and what are the benefits? And they haven’t been honest on COVID, because healthy children do not die from COVID, do not get seriously sick, and there’s no proof that the vaccine has any medical benefit for healthy children.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well we want to move on to other topics, sir, but we will continue to cover vaccination in this country. I think what you said there is that you’re supportive of all those health nominees. From what I heard you, you have been- I’m sorry, did you want to say?
SEN. PAUL: I was just going to say, yes, I am supportive,
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SEN. PAUL: But I wouldn’t describe them as the problem with vaccine hesitancy. I would describe the government misinformation as the problem with vaccine hesitancy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Messengers matter, though, but you have raised concerns in your role on Homeland Security about the implementation of some of the promises Donald Trump made on the campaign trail. His mass deportation vow is very popular. Our CBS polling shows 57% of voters like the idea, but how it is implemented matters a lot to voters. The vast majority prefer that federal law enforcement or immigration agencies carry them out. Just 40% say the US military should be involved. The stated Trump plan is to use the military, military assets, deputize the National Guard and have them act as immigration agents. Do you believe that is lawful?
SEN. PAUL: You know, I’m 100% supportive of going after the 15,000 murderers, the 13,000 sexual assault perpetrators, rapists, all these people. Let’s send them on their way to prison or back home to another prison. So I would say All-points bulletin, all in but you don’t do it with the Army because it’s illegal. We’ve, we’ve had a distrust of putting the army into our streets, because the police have a difficult job but the police understand the Fourth Amendment. They have to go to Judges. They have to get warrants. It has to be specific. And so I’m for removing these people, but I would do it through the normal process of domestic policing. Now, I would say that the mayor of Denver, if he’s going to resist federal law, which there’s a longstanding history of the supremacy of federal law, he’s going to resist that it will go all the way to the Supreme Court. And I would suspect that he would be removed from office. I don’t know whether or not there’d be a criminal prosecution for someone resisting federal law, but he will lose. And people need to realize that what he is- what he is offering, is a form of insurrection, where the states resist the federal government. Most people objected to that and rejected that long ago. So I think the mayor of Denver is on the wrong side of history, and really, I think will face legal ramifications if he doesn’t obey the federal law.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Just context on those numbers you rattled off in terms of criminals, those numbers from ICE are accurate figures, but they’re over a 40 year period of time. The. What we know now about the immigration authorities who would have to be charged with rounding these individuals up. There are just 6,000 agents, 41,000 detention beds to carry out the assignment of rounding up millions of undocumented people, potentially. How do you suggest they implement it? And if this is a red line for you in terms of using the military, would you vote no on the DHS Secretary Kristi Noem?
SEN. PAUL: I will not support and will not vote to use the military in our cities. I think it’s a terrible image. But I will tell you, but just in the last week, with the belief that a new administration will change things, there were four or five criminals arrested in the last week. And what would happen, and I think what will happen under Donald Trump’s administration is, I don’t recommend to use the army, but I would use the FBI, I would use ICE, I would use Border Patrol. And they have a list now of 15,000 I don’t care if it came in over 40 years or 10 years. If you’ve got a list. You put these people on an All-points bulletin. These are the kind of people that are dangerous and that everybody needs to be the watch on. And they would go out and seek those people that we have about 30,000 very dangerous people already convicted of crimes, that should be the first priority for all of this. Let’s go find those people. But it’s not about detaining them, in all likelihood, they should be going to a jail, either a jail here or in the country they came from. So I think if we did that, there will be a lot of unity. If they send the army into New York, and you have 10,000 troops marching carrying semi automatic weapons, I think it’s a terrible image, and I will oppose that. But it’s not that I oppose removing people. I just–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Right
SEN. PAUL: Object to what has been against the law for over 100 years, and that’s using the army.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But deputizing the National Guard. That specifically is the proposal. You also oppose that?
SEN. PAUL: I don’t think it’s the best way to do it. It’s less clear whether that’s legal or illegal. Typically, it has to be done at the behest of the governors. I still don’t like a militarization of police, whether it’s National Guard or army. I think there’s a lot of FBI, there’s a lot of border patrol agents. There’s a better way to do it, and it needs to be individualized. That doesn’t mean I’m any less serious about getting it done. It just needs to be done according to the law and consistent with our traditions.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood. You’ve made clear you are a fiscal conservative. I want to ask you about the choice just made to select hedge fund manager Scott Bessent as the treasury secretary. He had a long financial career. He served as the Chief Investment Officer for George Soros’ funds. He’s been a political donor. Elon Musk came out publicly against him, calling him business as usual. Do you favor Mr. Bessent in the role as Treasury secretary?
SEN. PAUL: You know, I’ve heard good things about him. I haven’t made a decision. I lean towards being supportive. I don’t like tariffs, but then again, I don’t like the president promoting tariffs. I think tariffs are a tax on the consumer, and they ignore things like with steel, there are 80 workers working in steel-buying industry for every worker making steel. So yeah, you can protect certain industries, but it’s at the expense of other people. I don’t believe that will be enough for me to want to vote against best and because it’s also the President’s position as well. I will be vocal in saying that I think tariffs are bad and that international trade actually saves every consumer about $7,000 a year. So everybody in our country is $7,000 richer because of international trade. It’s part of one of the booms of post-war and post-industrial revolution. These amazing international trade has made us all richer, and we need to talk about the statistics and facts concerning the benefits of trade.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood on the nuances and specifics there, but that is primarily how Donald Trump is promising to pay for all the things he promised on the campaign trail. As you know, the federal debt is past $36 trillion as of this week. His proposals to lift taxes off of tips, overtime, Medicare, Social Security, give tax credits that could add as much as $8 trillion more to the deficit, according to the Committee for a Responsible Budget. Do you actually expect Republicans to take up these proposals?
SEN. PAUL: You know, in 2017 I voted for a tax reduction package that they said would add to the debt, but I also forced my colleagues to vote for pay-as-you-go, it’s a policy that’s in our law, and they have to waive it, which means that if a tax cut causes a reduction and causes an increase in the debt because of reduced revenue that you have to have spending cuts. So, I’ve always been in favor of the tax cuts, but I’ve also been in favor of the spending cuts. The same will occur with this. If we do cut- cut taxes, which I think helps the economy, you leave money in the hands of the productive private sector. I think that’s a good idea, but if you do it. I would cut spending, and there will be procedural blockade or procedural votes that I will force, that says that we should also cut spending as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Our polling shows that the vast majority of Americans, 86% prefer people with experience running the agencies, and 64% polled by us, think it’s important to appoint people with that experience in Washington. Given that, for example, the Pentagon pick hasn’t ever managed a large corporation or held a high rank in the military, do you think he can run the Pentagon?
SEN. PAUL: Yes, and I think the vast majority of people, if you poll them, will say that they don’t think people should be picked based on religion or gender or sexuality. They want people to be picked on merit. And one of one of Pete Hegseth’s criticisms of our Pentagon is that we’ve gone away from merit–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –yes
SEN. PAUL: and gone more towards racial characteristics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK–
SEN. PAUL: –And so I think that the people are, and would be, overwhelmingly in favor
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK–
SEN. PAUL: -Of someone who’s going to base hiring on merit not on racial characteristics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Senator Paul, thank you for your time today. “Face the Nation” will be back in a minute.
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